I find humorous people incredibly sexy!

An interview with Sandra Dirks

Sandra Dirks: has no clue about football – despite this honest self-assessment, she comes across as a seasoned stadium-goer, cheering on the one true, unbeatable team every weekend. But it's not 22 players and a ball that her enthusiasm is directed towards, but rather her newly arrived Bikatools. Her humorous video, which she posted on YouTube, attracted attention with its witty and imaginative design. Who is this woman who is swept away by such enthusiasm by presentation materials?

Sandra Dirks , born in 1971, began her career after graduating from high school in the perfume department of Karstadt department store and quickly worked her way up from assistant to training manager. Along the way, she soon realized that her true talent lay in motivating her employees – and doing so with a great deal of humor. It's no surprise, then, that she didn't let this knowledge go to waste and, five years ago, founded her own company, apprenti, as a self-employed trainer. There, she offers seminars for trainees, junior staff, and sales employees in chain retail, and has also specialized in "train-the-trainer" seminars. She places great emphasis on the fun factor, which is why she is now also active as a comedy trainer. Her partners include the well-known comedian Max Giermann and the comedy writer Michael Krieg.
As a communicative person, she not only maintains a regular blog, but can also be found on the well-known social networks and makes sure to tweet regularly.
Her enthusiasm for Neuland products and her interesting career are a good reason to conduct an interview with Ms. Dirks.

Guido Neuland: From personnel training to comedy – how did this development come about?

Sandra Dirks: I've always been fascinated by humorous people. This is a serious interview, but I simply find humorous people incredibly sexy. Four years ago, I started taking courses on comedy writing and stand-up. That's when I got the idea to combine this knowledge with seminar content. My next step was to share this with other trainers and offer train-the-trainer seminars. I convinced the comedy writer Michael Krieg to develop a joint concept. That was three years ago. Since then, we've been refining the seminar and continually enriching it with the practical experience from both of our fields. So far, we've only used it in-house. I think the readers of this interview should definitely sign up for our open seminar. 😉 (Ugh, blatant advertising, Ms. Dirks!) Just last Saturday, we recorded the train-the-trainer seminar. In the coming weeks, we'll be posting excerpts online to show that the topic isn't abstract or silly. Many trainers and HR professionals are hesitant about humor or comedy because they find it too difficult and are afraid of making themselves and their subject matter look ridiculous. In my seminars, I've found that participants retain the information much better after a good laugh. I'm addicted to seeing my seminar participants laugh a lot.

Guido Neuland: Isn't that unprofessional? Why don't you just go on a comedy stage?

Sandra Dirks: No, it's not unprofessional, and no, I don't want to be on a comedy stage; I want to "rock" the seminar room. Here, I'm much closer to the people, and I feel I can achieve a lot with comedy, for example, sparking interest in topics that are generally considered incredibly boring. I should add that my passion lies more with technical subjects and sales training. In a self-discovery and coaching context, comedy, as I love it, might be rather inappropriate or even come across as a sledgehammer. Humor can also be used as an intervention in coaching, which is a very effective approach. But that's no longer my main focus. Although I must admit that I enjoy poking fun at that "watered-down trainer thing" with its carefully chosen vocabulary, which I know from my own professional development courses and which I've never really been able to embrace, or only superficially. It gets especially funny when I have practitioners in my seminar who are plagued by self-reflection issues and find these "soft" topics rather strange. If someone wants coaching, I refer them to a great colleague in my network.

Guido Neuland: What advice can you give to anyone who, like you, gets annoyed daily by "grumpy, miserable people" (direct quote)?

Sandra Dirks: I still draw on the knowledge I gained in sales. During breaks, we'd sit together with different salespeople and talk about "those" customers. We'd parody them, make fun of them, and laugh until we cried. After a break like that, you could go back completely relaxed and cheerfully prepare for new customers. And if something did go wrong, you knew you'd find some kindred spirits with whom you could also get a lot of laughs out of the situation. After that, it's all forgotten. Most of the time, anyway.
These days, I blog and tweet about things like this. If I get annoyed, you'll read about it on my personal or professional blog, in my Facebook status update, or on Twitter. Then it's out in the open, and I don't have to be annoyed anymore. The internet is fantastic, and if the person it concerns reads it, then we might have a good basis for a good exchange. I've experienced that before. Very cathartic. But I don't even want to talk to those two grumpy old men from the trade fair; they'd want to discuss it. I'm not interested in that. Anyone who doesn't want to participate from the start should stay away.

Guido Neuland: What is it about Neuland products that convinces you so much? What other products can you admire in a similar way?

Sandra Dirks: Shoes and handbags!!
– Oh, for work?! I also like to order fun seminar toys from Trainerswarehouse.com, Metalog, or Pappnase. When these packages arrive, I get just as excited. Now I think I could even make a short video about it; the package from America arrived last Friday. The excitement is still fresh. Apparently, people watch that kind of thing on YouTube.

I'm also a big fan of new methodology books . I always discover something new there and find them very inspiring.
What I find so appealing about Neuland products is, on the one hand, the colors and shapes, and on the other hand, the practical little details, which I, as a trainer, really appreciate. I often think, "Wow, someone's put a lot of thought into this. That's exactly what I want." The Novario combination case is one such item; I just ordered it. Last year, I saw a similar design at Manufaktum in Berlin and thought it would be a great idea. Apparently, you at Neuland recognized its potential, thought it was a good idea, and immediately added it to your product line. By colors and shapes, I don't mean the cloud-shaped markers or presentation cards. I much prefer the colorful trainer and facilitator markers, which are comfortable to hold and which I use with great enthusiasm to create flip charts. I also use presentation cards because they're practical in various situations. However, when it comes to facilitation, I often have a strange feeling. There are countless books that describe which shape and color are intended for which questions or facilitation cycles and that these must be followed meticulously. Probably because otherwise the flip chart would explode, or something equally terrible would happen. That stifles my creativity and kills my enthusiasm for presenting with cards. I've stopped doing it. I always find it funny when I'm doing presentation training for exam candidates and then have to impart such clever half-truths as: "Please only use a maximum of 2-3 colors on a flip chart!" – while the participants enthusiastically read this on the colorful flip chart, which isn't actually colorful at all, but lovingly designed with six colors. After all, what are 25 colors for? That's always a riot of stand-up comedy in the seminar, because then I explain why I do it this way and under what circumstances the participants can actually do it.

Guido Neuland: What is your favorite training element and what do you use it for?

Sandra Dirks: I really can't decide. There are several elements I like to use frequently. These methods often come from improvisational theater. One exercise, however, is legendary. The participants often ask me first if I'm serious and, by the way, if I've already taken "my pills," or perhaps too many. It's the final, big review of the learning material with a karaoke session. After initial grumbling or sheer disbelief, the participants transform into professional singers, songwriters, and performers who make Detlef D. Soost and his pop stars look bland. I really enjoy that, and the participants engage intensively with the material again and then have fun with the performance. Casting show rules, and everyone's in the next round! Of course, this requires that I've created a safe environment for it. So, at the end of a multi-day seminar. Recently, two participants confessed to me that they had quietly hummed the song during the exam to remember what they had learned. Well, there you go, THAT'S what ultimately matters to me.

Guido Neuland: Your basic attitude is not to take yourself too seriously or too importantly. What possibilities do you see for applying this concept to yourself personally, and to whom would you like to advise this?

Sandra Dirks: I absolutely want to advise all my fellow trainers and lecturers to do this. When I overhear some colleagues' conversations, it frightens me. They take topics deadly seriously. I'm appalled at how I managed to survive without ever having heard anything about this important subject. How must a participant feel then? Small, ignorant, stupid? Please don't misunderstand, this isn't to be confused with superficiality and dangerous half-knowledge. Unfortunately, that's all too common in our profession. It's about simply observing yourself from an outside perspective to realize that there are other topics in life. Then you also realize that you can embed your own topic in exciting contexts and perhaps make it much more fun or engaging for the participants. That's how you gain new friends for the topic that is so important to you.

Guido Neuland: Imagine you were given a year off, without worrying about income, etc. – what would you do?

Sandra Dirks: I would pursue further education. Crazy, right? But in our line of work, you're always more or less a continuing education junkie. It would definitely be a creative year. I'd want to do an internship on one of my favorite TV series, working in the various production departments. I might also take an acting or comedy course or two on the side. I'd also book intensive one-on-one coaching with the communication coaches so that by the end of the year I can effortlessly create large overview posters. No worries about income? Then I'd also expand my shoe and handbag collection. I love shopping! Look, I work in retail; you have to constantly experiment to stay current.

Guido Neuland: I find the contrast between "dry" key performance indicators like LUG and KER and the comedy theme fascinating. Is the fun an important counterpoint?

Sandra Dirks: Participants come to the seminar with reservations and anxieties about such topics. Fun offers the opportunity to simply relax and unwind in relation to these subjects. Many still carry limiting beliefs such as: "You can't do that!" or "That's terribly complicated and difficult to understand." – Humor helps in these situations. Where there is laughter, one can relax and open one's senses to learning.

Max Giermann and Sandra Dirks. Scene from the seminar: "Parodies in the Seminar".

Guido Neuland: What specifically did you learn from the comedians?

Sandra Dirks: Max Giermann works very professionally, and it was important for both of us to have the exact schedule and to have internalized it. The key word here is safety. There's improvisation in the program, but there are also program elements (input) that have to be planned very precisely beforehand. We probably share the need to familiarize ourselves with the space in order to know exactly what parameters we're working within.

Everyone in their own way. I've also noticed that even professional actors experience a lot of tension. That's human and perfectly normal. But I'd never been so aware of it before. That's fundamentally changed how I deal with stage fright. If it's not there, I feel like something's missing.

Michael Krieg & Sandra Dirks. From the seminar “Comedy in the Seminar”

But I've learned so much more for my work from Michael Krieg . Not just his writing and his general knowledge of comedy, but also his approach to working with participants. His relaxed, very open manner, which suits me much better. That's incredibly valuable to me. I used to treat seminar participants very carefully, like they were made of glass; I learned that in various train-the-trainer seminars. But honestly, that's incredibly boring! You don't treat customers that cautiously, even in business. I always had to pretend. Sometimes I wanted to say something to participants forcefully, or just cheekily. I do that in real life, too. If there's a know-it-all in the seminar, you can tell them that. That's what I do now. To express a feeling or a thought freely and realize that it has a very cathartic effect on the atmosphere. It's not about being rude. But this constant mental exercise, "What effect will this have on the participant?" – we need to look deeper into that! That doesn't feel authentic to me. Michael Krieg didn't attend those coaching courses, and that's a good thing. Sometimes he looked at me incredulously when I was afraid he'd put a cheeky participant in their place with equally cheeky behavior. Now I watch him with admiration and trust him. To sometimes take the lead and let things come to a head. Why not? Now I enjoy my job so much more. Comedy makes these things possible. It's okay to be cheeky sometimes. To deal with the consequences, not to shy away from them. Comedy is only for the brave.

You can find out more about Sandra Dirks on her website:
www.apprenti.de